How much can you trust official NHL attendance figures?
Consider this: the Detroit Red Wings reported 20,066 through the turnstiles for Wednesday’s game against Phoenix. Ted Kulfan of the Detroit News estimates actual attendance at about 13,000.
The Wings have an iron-clad excuse: They were up against the Tigers, who are closing in on a berth in the World Series. Once the ball team’s near-miraculous season is over, Detroit’s hockey team will resume its place as one of the top draws in the NHL.
But if Hockeytown can pad its numbers by about 30 percent, what kind of lies are they telling at other NHL arenas? How many real people showed up for Wednesday’s games in Florida (which reported 14,312 loyal customers), Atlanta (12,579) or Anaheim (12,394)?
Translated from NHL marketing-speak, "Attendance: 12,000" means "failed hockey market".
It's October, so for now they can lean on the old, "Just wait until we're not competing with baseball/football/NASCAR" excuse. The Panthers and Thrashers should be decent this year, and the Ducks are a Stanley Cup contender. So we'll see.
But you have to wonder how many folks eagerly await the next game in Phoenix. The Coyotes, who were trashed 9-2 in that poorly-attended Detroit game, are an early candidate for worst team in the NHL. If they moved to Moose Jaw tomorrow, would anyone in Arizona notice?
Postscript: To find the NHL's true dead zone, look no further than one of the league's venerable Original Six franchises: According to the Chicago Tribune, Thursday's announced attendance of 8,008 is the smallest Blackhawks' crowd in over 10 years, since the team moved to the United Center in 1995.
Comments
Why would anyone want to watch a game that has penalties every 20 seconds or less, My son just quite “AAA” Juvenille because there is no fun for players and no flow to the game. Iam Canadian and stand by our orginal game not he NHL, defenceman should be called end guards as they are not allowed to defend anymore. Give me back the old game where you paid with your body to play the game. Now it is a whossyified game.
would a team like Detroit pad their numbers to help increase payroll cap?
Get real here.
Sold tickets vs. actual attendance figures.
In Detroit, corporations buy all the tickets–hence the sell-outs…
Jamie, I wrote a quick note to Ted Kulfan the other day asking him about this! Thanks for reporting the truth, it confirms what Mr. Kulfan indicated in his blog. I completely agree with Vic, bring back the old NHL.
I have to agree going back to the old way of playing hockey,it was more interesting and exciting.Also this shootout that they have if the game is tied,I’d rather they went back to having the team on the ice.As for the attendance,when you get a chance to watch hockey on tv. which is far and few between,you can see the empty seats.They made a very bad mistake in taking hockey away from ESPN,at least you could count on watching it,now you don’t hardly see it anymore.
I didn’t even realize there still was professional hockey anymore!?
Vic, you don’t need to mention you are a Canadian, your pitiful, failed grasp at the English language and incomprehensively moronic statement spoke volumes about your country of origin. Only some sad, washed-up, pathetic hoser could possibly entertain the absurd notion that hockey before the recent rules changes was better than the product we have today. You really enjoy all of those sister-kissing 1-0, 2-1 games? Sure you do, you’re from Canada, sister kissing is just as common as frostbite on your genitalia, which you seem to completely lack, along with brains. You’d rather watch no-talent thugs making US $400,000, that’s like $2 billion Canadian, clutch and grab the NHL into oblivion. How can you possibly prefer having a league with NO 100 POINT SCORERS for the first time since the late 60s to the open, freely-flowing game of SKILL and TALENT we are enjoying today? You’ve played too much hockey without a helmet, or your mullet is so big that it’s putting stress on your already pea-sized brain. I’ll gladly take Sidney Crosby, Ilya Kovalchuk and Jagr over your heroes of Scott Mellanby, Derian Hatcher and Donald Brashear. They are dinosaurs, and so is your thought-process, you all deserve each other and should be as extinct as the dinos are, only dinos are worth something coming back as oil, I wouldn’t give two cents, Canadian or otherwise, for the old NHL. Your son probably quit because he can’t skate or shoot and was tired of being stuck at center ice while the action zoomed past him and buzzed around the net. In fact, you probably pulled him from the league because you were too embarrassed getting heckled. I’m glad you don’t like the new hockey, that means it’s working as it should. No fun for the players??? It’s no fun for slow, unskilled monkeys who can only hit, but they can’t hit what they can’t catch. Crosby sure looks like he’s having fun tatooing the Philthadelphia Flyers every time they meet, now. I’m sorry your country can’t win a Stanley Cup or a gold medal anymore, and that there are less Canadian teams than you have teeth, but the NHL has to have as much scoring as possible now or else it will die. Attendance figures are down because ticket and concession prices are so high to line the owners’ and players’ pockets and because every game can be seen on local TV. The NHL is immeasureably better now than it was at the turn of the century. If you don’t agree, I’m amazed you can even use a computer to post your inane stupidity. You’re really probably just worried your nation’s only hero, Gretzky, will have his records destroyed some day by someone who can actually play the game on his own without benefit of an All-Star cast. If Gretzky had ever been checked and not protected like the pansy he is, he would have shattered into 99 pieces. He barely topped 100 points without his star, supporting cast, what a phony. Vic, you’re just flat wrong, and I hope you are for the rest of time, you and the other symbiants who hilariously agree with you. Have a great day.
Jim your an idiot. Obviously you know nothing about the state of hockey. I wont argue that the game is better, but maybe you should buy and encyclopedia and learn something about canada. Like Sage said attendance figures are accurate the difference is tickets sold, and gate attendance. A place like detroit is sold out due to season ticket holders, and corprate tickets, just because someone doesnt use the ticket doesnt mean it doesnt get counted into the attendance. What does it matter to the teams if someone who has paid for a ticket doesnt show up. What do you expect them to do take a head count.
Amen Jim.
It amazes me that people want to go back to the crap of the old NHL when we’re being entertained like never before with the great young talent that is actually allowed to display their skill. But I guess I like the new NHL because I’m actually a hockey fan. People who want to go back to the old crap are people who watched hockey for the fights and played just to get anger out. You’d think a Canadian would actually have respect for the game, but apparently this Vic guy just liked watching people beat eachother up – not the actual game. In that case, go watch some boxing. Or hell, NASCAR, that was about as exciting as the old NHL.
About the attendance numbers – THOSE ARE NUMBERS OF TICKETS SOLD, DUMBASS. THE NHL REPORTS NUMBERS SOLD, NOT BUTTS IN THE SEAT. THIS IS THE SAME IN EVERY PROFESSIONAL SPORTS LEAGUE. It doesn’t matter who’s actually in the seats – it matters how much money they made. And Detroit sells out every game. Just not many people actually show up.
http://www.petitiononline.com/helpnhl/petition.html
The new NHL is an absolute disgrace. You can argue about paid versus actual attendance all you want. But it is a fact that fans aren’t showing up to games. If you don’t think that takes a toll on concession, parking, and souvenier sales, you are in over your head. On top of that, hockey tickets are routinely offered on special (or even freebies for a lot of games) these days because arenas can’t sell out… that means the average value of a sold ticket has dropped as well. This all adds up, especially when fans don’t show up and no one watches on t.v.
I just attended the Senators/Trashers game on Saturday afternoon in Ottawa. The game was a sell-out, but teams like the Sens are taking a beating at the gate profit-wise because you can buy tix for 1/2 off face value if you know a season-ticket holder. I’m trying to figure out how that kind of business model (filling the seats with heavily-discounted tickets) can survive in a small market like Ottawa ?
Anyone else think “Jim” is Gary Bettman’s online alias?
Seriously, Jim – the hostility in your post was a little uncalled for, wouldn’t you say? But the world has come to expect this behaviour from typical arrogant, ignorant, xenophobic yanks. Of course you’re hostile – your president is a lobotomized monkey who embarrasses the once proud USA on a daily basis. You can’t stand that the rest of the world laughs at you, so you come on internet boards and spew bile and hate to show us how tough you are. You’re pathetic, Jimbo. We’re still laughing.
First of all, Max, I’m American, and I believe you to be brilliant, my friend. You’re a logical, insightful dude.
Now, to those of you that are seemingly fifteen-years-old, what Vic meant by the “old NHL” is that of the eighties and early-nineties–before dictator Gary-B. You know, back when 16 of the 21 teams scored more than 300 goals a year, rather than one of 30 teams doing such??? Yeah, idiots, that’s what Vic means. He means Gretzky prime era. He means Minnesota North Stars, Winnipeg Jets, Hartford Whalers, and Quebec Nordiques era. He means local sports channels in lieu of Fox Sports Anywhere. He means the “old NHL,” not the NHL of two or three years ago! Fools. That time frame is only considered “old” if it’s in reference to the length of time you’ve been wearing the same soiled drawers.
Attendance is obvious – look at the empty seats at all the NHL games. Anyone responding to this blog i assume appreciates the game of hockey. The true demise of the NHL is Bettman and his crew, They foresaw the strike and did not care. They tweaked some of the rules but not for the better of the game. My biggest complaint-There is no incentive to win your division. 1-8 does not matter. Good teams go to the playoffs, bad teams don’t. The NHL needs to add an incentive like American Football – A Bye round for divisional winners. Playoff hockey is better than regular season Football. Incentivise NHL players to win there division. We would have a much better product and many more fans. Also, tv- lets get rid of the 1980′s camera angles and get in the action. I don’t have that answer, i unfortunately have another job that feeds my famly. Love Hockey, still play, but am finding it hard to hold on to the passion.
Thanks Nelson for clarifying that indeed not all Americans are as ignorant and arrogant as Jim would have us believe. While I agree that no one wants the NHL to be mired in slow skating hacks, there is a long tradition of strategic fighting in Hockey that should not be disregarded by people who do not understand the game. This is what angers most true fans of Hockey these days…the fact that Bettman is actively trying to turn the game into something it is not and install Hockey into markets where it is not wanted and doesn’t belong. Bring back the Winnipeg Jets!!
GIVE WINGS FANS A BREAK!
I gotta say something about the Red Wings fans not showing up. Try moving to michigan finding a job! Yeah. You can work, but not for 20 or 15 or hell, even 10$ an hour. Add that to high gas prices and health ins. and going to watch hockey or even going to the movies has become something that people just do less. I live in Grand Rapids MI wich is a few hours from Detroit and I used to go to 5 or 6 Wings games a year. But now with 3$ a gallon and a 4$ an hour cut in pay, I stay home and watch them on FSN Detroit. Just a fact in life not a difference in my passion or love of the Wings or hockey. I have been a fan since 1987 and I will watch and follow the Red Wings until I die. I love hockey and Michigan. I just hope the next president and our economy in the USA can live up to my pride as a citizen of our proud nation. I hope so for Canada’s sake also. I know one thing for sure, if HockeyTown’s attendance and following is in jeopardy then the NHL is in jeopardy. I love the game and I love the RED WINGS!!!! God Bless America and our friends in the north!
blackhawks had a full house against the kings 21000 full united center against kings
Jim, I always find it amusing when a “master” debater, such as yourself, finds ways of calling down their opponent as opposed to discussing the facts!
For clarity, I “suggest” that you so quickly brought up your comments on genitalia, because it was your defence mechanism coming to the forefront of your thoughts. You see, subconsciously, your “petite’ness” in your southern area over took your real argument about the comments made by others regarding attendance.
What you clearly left out, is this…without these mullet wearing Canadians you talk about so maliciously, there would be no hockey!!! Check the percentages per team, butt head! Yep, that’s right, we created the Hoser’s, but you my friend, will always be Beavis’ side kick…Butt head!
O’ Canada…and by the way, Jim…I have many-many Americans that I feel are my brothers and sisters! I never consider them anything less than Canadian…YOU aren’t in that club!
Have a nice day…Hugh.
If Detroit corporations buy up all these tickets, can’t they find some poor fans to use the tickets? If there are a lot of season ticket holders who don’t attend games, what kind of fans are they, or can’t they sell or give away the tickets? Seems like total lies!